Measurable Outcomes - All Things Product Podcast with Teresa Torres & Petra Wille
Listen to this episode on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts
In this episode of All Things Product, Teresa Torres and Petra Wille tackle a classic product question with a twist: Should all outcomes be measurable? Teresa revisits a long-held belief—that outcomes should be metrics—and explains why she’s starting to shift her thinking.
Drawing from hands-on product work (like rethinking outcomes at a recruiting platform), Teresa shows how focusing on value creation moments can sometimes matter more than tracking clean metrics. Petra adds her perspective with the Google HEART framework, highlighting how starting with signals instead of goals can lead to smarter product decisions.
Whether you’re early in discovery or leading a seasoned product team, this episode helps you rethink how to frame success—even when it’s hard to measure.
Key topics we cover:
- Why not all outcomes need to be measurable—especially on day one
- Teresa’s story: shifting from “applications” to “hires” as a more meaningful outcome
- How to work toward measurable outcomes over time
- Petra Wille explains how the HEART framework can help teams track value, not just numbers
- The difference between metrics, signals, and goals
- How to define outcomes when you're pre-product or pre-metrics
- Why focusing on value creation moments leads to better product strategy
- What most people get wrong about “finding product-market fit”
Resources & Links:
- Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
- Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com
Mentioned in the episode:
- Teresa’s blog post: Shifting from Outputs to Outcomes: Why It Matters and How to Get Started
- Google’s HEART Framework
- Teresa’s blog post: How Continuous Discovery Works (and Doesn’t) in Early-Stage Startups
- Product/Market fit survey by Sean Ellis and GoPractice
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