Role of Leadership in Transformations - All Things Product Podcast with Teresa Torres & Petra Wille
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In this conversation, Teresa Torres and Petra Wille unpack a pattern they’re seeing again and again in product transformations: teams get trained in continuous discovery, but nothing sticks because leaders haven’t changed how they work. They dig into why “train your leaders first” isn’t just a catchy mantra — it’s a prerequisite for shifting from projects to true product thinking.
They share concrete examples from interview training gone sideways, the hidden organizational dynamics that stall discovery habits, the role product leadership actually plays (and why most orgs underestimate it), and the empathy we all need for leaders who are learning this way of working for the first time.
If your teams are struggling to adopt discovery, or if your transformation feels stuck, this episode will give you a clearer picture of where the real blockers live — and what leaders can do differently to unlock meaningful change.
Topics We Cover:
- Why teams finish discovery training… and then nothing changes
- The missing piece in most transformations: leadership habits
- The organizational friction that shows up when teams start interviewing customers
- How outdated “my job is to tell teams what to build” mindsets hold companies back
- Why hierarchy clashes with modern product practices (and why “all ideas come equal”)
- Why product culture has to be intentionally created, not assumed
- The leadership skills gap — most product leaders never learned continuous discovery themselves
- How pilot teams surface hidden organizational obstacles and trigger the corporate “immune system”
- A look at Petra’s Product Leadership Wheel and why orgs need clearer expectations for product leaders
- Teresa & Hope’s new Product Operating Model guide
- A preview of the Discovery Habits Toolbox and how it supports leaders coaching discovery teams
Key Takeaways:
- Skills training isn’t enough. If leaders still manage through feature requests and roadmaps, teams will abandon discovery — even if they loved the training.
- Leaders need training too. They must know how to evaluate discovery work, how to talk about outcomes, and how to create rituals that reinforce new habits.
- Discovery uncovers conflicts. Sales, account management, stakeholders, and execs all feel impacted when teams start bringing real customer evidence to the table.
- Product leadership is a craft. It requires clarity, systems, and cultural stewardship — not just seniority.
- Transformations should start with leaders and pilot teams, because that’s where the hidden blockers surface.
Resources & Links:
- Follow Teresa Torres: https://ProductTalk.org
- Follow Petra Wille: https://Petra-Wille.com
Mentioned in this episode:
- Product Talk Academy’s Train Your Team by Teresa Torres
- Melissa Perri’s “Train leaders first, not last.” Linkedin post
- Coaching for Product Leaders/Executives by Petra Wille
- Product Leadership Wheel by Petra
- What Makes a Great Product Culture? A Guide for Product Leaders blog post by Petra
- Story-Based Customer Interviews on demand course by Teresa
- An idea board—do we see enough potential? and Four Taskboards in a simple illustration: Idea Board, Product Overview Board, Product Discovery Board and Development Team Board - Illustrations taken from Petra’s blog: Opportunity Assessment: Do We Want to Invest in Discovering This Idea?
- Is Your Organization Ready to Adopt the Product Operating Model? blog post by Teresa with Hope Gurion
- The Product Operating Model Explained: From Pilot Teams to Full Transformation by Melissa Suzuno on Product Talk
- Community of Practice by Petra
- TRANSFORMED: Moving to the Product Operating Model and EMPOWERED: Ordinary People, Extraordinary Products books by Marty Cagan
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